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Re: HTTPS-RR and ECH
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From: Michael via curl-library <curl-library_at_lists.haxx.se>
Date: Sun, 2 Aug 2026 06:34:58 +0500
>
>
> What if you build a browser using libcurl for the networking parts?
>
> unlikely. browser is a huge project, its hard to justify such a project
and even harder to predict it will utilize CURL library.
> I expect no one thinks we should conflate anything, but I'm pretty sure a
> large amount of curl and licburl users think we should offer the same or
> similar transfer features that the browsers have.
>
> even larger amount of users dont want to be tracked by cloudflare,
when asked, that is why the ECH option is opt-out by default,
to avoid users.
> We offer options for users to opt-in and out of features, both at
> build-time
> and runtime to allow them to decide as much as possible.
>
> but opting in is not offered anymore?
> Browser-like automation is a pretty signification chunk of curl use cases.
>
> ECH is not needed for automation, right?
> I must have missed all your pull-requests and work into improve curl's
> HTTPS
> record resolving without using an external library.
>
> this is just not my style - it is too small, it is impossible to delete
the threading model altogether or change the design. i never thought about
such an activity before ext/curl rewrite as well, because, obviously it is
a different project architecture.
> > A user-developer choosing to link that dependency is simply inheriting
> > structural complexity.
>
> Linking with libcurl is already "inheriting significant structural
> complexity". The key is probably to provide value that is worth more than
> the
> complexity it contains/hides.
>
> absolutely, but ECH doesn't provide anything useful to a user-developer.
Date: Sun, 2 Aug 2026 06:34:58 +0500
>
>
> What if you build a browser using libcurl for the networking parts?
>
> unlikely. browser is a huge project, its hard to justify such a project
and even harder to predict it will utilize CURL library.
> I expect no one thinks we should conflate anything, but I'm pretty sure a
> large amount of curl and licburl users think we should offer the same or
> similar transfer features that the browsers have.
>
> even larger amount of users dont want to be tracked by cloudflare,
when asked, that is why the ECH option is opt-out by default,
to avoid users.
> We offer options for users to opt-in and out of features, both at
> build-time
> and runtime to allow them to decide as much as possible.
>
> but opting in is not offered anymore?
> Browser-like automation is a pretty signification chunk of curl use cases.
>
> ECH is not needed for automation, right?
> I must have missed all your pull-requests and work into improve curl's
> HTTPS
> record resolving without using an external library.
>
> this is just not my style - it is too small, it is impossible to delete
the threading model altogether or change the design. i never thought about
such an activity before ext/curl rewrite as well, because, obviously it is
a different project architecture.
> > A user-developer choosing to link that dependency is simply inheriting
> > structural complexity.
>
> Linking with libcurl is already "inheriting significant structural
> complexity". The key is probably to provide value that is worth more than
> the
> complexity it contains/hides.
>
> absolutely, but ECH doesn't provide anything useful to a user-developer.
-- Unsubscribe: https://lists.haxx.se/mailman/listinfo/curl-library Etiquette: https://curl.se/mail/etiquette.htmlReceived on 2026-08-02